Can you please stop including SweetIM spyware? This junk is installed even when unchecking the options to install additional stuff.
I had to use Spybot to remove it, because it wasn't in the Programs & Features section in control panel, confirming it as spyware.
2. One also assumes some de-facto UI conventions.
3. In any case logic, common sense, license terms, ethics ... make it unacceptable to install stuff that only causes irritation to the user and cannot be [un]installed easily.
Well said. And, while Thany also makes a good case for de-facto UI convention standards being the responsibility of the developer, I think at this point the real issue is #3 above. It's about the ability to trust PDFForge. Its credibility. It has none--and will never have any so long as it continues to support unnecessary (and, let's be honest here, Philip, completely undesired) third-party software.
So either don't download-and-execute additional software without permission, or ask for permission. Just because I invite you into my home, it doesn't give *you* the same privilege to invite *another* person into my home. That's just common sense. In computing, the same principle applies, and failure to comply will result in not only distrusting the downloaded software, but the installer too, and by extension pdfforge as a company. For now at least.
...and the longer this remains an issue of contest, Philip, the less and less trust users will ever place in your software. You are degrading your software, your company, and yourself for the sake of financial gain. I think I have Mephistopheles' e-mail here if you need it...
@thany: The advertisement still is loaded durign the setup, but that is not harmful in any way as it just displays the advertisement. Only if the user hits "accept" anything can be installed. From now on also the check boxes need to be checked. If a user unselects all check boxes and hits accept, nothing will be installed as well.
Regarding "it's not the user's fault": I don't share that opinion. No matter how obvious you try to be, there will always be people that don't understand it. Maybe this also is a cultural thing, but I don't think that you have to make everything so easy to understand that "everyone" can use it. There are things that require that you read and understand them.
This should be no excuse for the confusing screens of the past. The new ads are very straightforward and as I said many times, we always try to provide users with information as good as possible and work with our advertisement partners to comply with that.
kind regards,
Philip
@thany: The advertisement still is loaded durign the setup, but that is not harmful in any way as it just displays the advertisement. Only if the user hits "accept" anything can be installed. From now on also the check boxes need to be checked. If a user unselects all check boxes and hits accept, nothing will be installed as well.
That's good and all, but I (or any other user) don't know that for sure. I can decide to believe your pretty blue eyes (as we say in my country) but that will get us nowhere in real life. The point is, The installer asks for permission to install software onto the pc, the user trusts that question and gives permission (via UAC), then the installer has gained adrministrative privileges and what does it do: it downloads a file from an untrusted (by the user) source and executes it. For all I know there could be a virus in it that destroys who knows what.
So either don't download-and-execute additional software without permission, or ask for permission. Just because I invite you into my home, it doesn't give *you* the same privilege to invite *another* person into my home. That's just common sense. In computing, the same principle applies, and failure to comply will result in not only distrusting the downloaded software, but the installer too, and by extension pdfforge as a company. For now at least.
Regarding "it's not the user's fault": I don't share that opinion. No matter how obvious you try to be, there will always be people that don't understand it. Maybe this also is a cultural thing, but I don't think that you have to make everything so easy to understand that "everyone" can use it. There are things that require that you read and understand them.
First of all, it's not an opinion - it's a hard fact.
Secondly, the exception confirms the rule.
That's the same as admitting you're tricking people into installing it. People don't read. No really, they just don't. The first thing any user will do is uncheck the checkboxes and click next, because that's what comes naturally. You can't and shouldn't expect users to read the whole message.
But even so, SweetIM is classified by scanners as SPYWARE. That's malicious code that could all kinds of nasty things to a user's pc, such as stealing private information. This is illegal in many countries (as it should be). Btw, what is actually does, is irrelevant. The classification is enough for me.
Therefor I have stopped using and uninstalled pdfcreator until these practices stop. I urge you to stop including this spyware in the installer. Replace it by something harmless if you must.
Hi,
I must admit, that the offer screen during the setup can be a bit confusing, but if you actually read it, it says that by clicking next the software will be installed, the checkboxes do as stated. By pressing decline no additional software will be installed ( this may be the confusing point, where some users think pressing decline will cancel the entire installation of PDFCreator).
regards,
Robin
I uninstalled PDFcreator 1.4.1 with the hope that the spyware would unstall too, which it did not.
So I re-installed and payed extra attention to see if there were options not to install the Spyware.
THERE WERE NOT
There is the checkmark option not to install the AVG toolbar and that's it.
I cannot express in words how irate I am that I donated money and i got this spyware that I cannot get rid of and keeps throwing errors on startup (a "Search Settings" thing).
What's more, the license terms are being violated:
Recommended Third Party Software
You are NEVER required to install any recommended third party software, and you will not be required to install any third party software as a condition to install the Software. We will never install any third party software without your express consent
We ensure that all OpenCandy recommended third party software which may be installed allows for simple uninstallation without harming your computer, and without leaving files or applications behind.
Instead of packing the software with these shady things, translating your donation page (yes, not everybody understands German, though this may come as a surprise) like I suggest many months ago might get you the same money.
Hello,
I understand that you feel tricked when you get something and did not notice it was offered, but I think that the setup screen is very clear about that. It tells you what it offers and you can select Accept/Next or Decline. I think this is very easy to do and a big improvement in comparison to older screens.
Also, you are citing different things. The OpenCandy offer shows the AVG Toolbar for you right now, but it can also offer other things. So it is not the case that it asks for AVG Toolbar and then silently installs other things.
Also, I can't find an AV vendor that classifies SweetIM as malicious or something similar.
Lastly, which donation page are you talking about? I can only see the international version: http://www.pdfforge.org/donate and the respective donate buttons on the support page (http://www.pdfforge.org/support) which are displayed in german, french and english.
kind regards,
Philip
¿clear? You must surely be talking about some thing else.
>and did not notice it was offered
I re-installed and payed even FULLer attention the second time (I had gotten shit from PDFcreator in the past, so I was already aware the first time around). Like I said, there was only an option for avoiding the AVG toolbar.
Even if that was not the case, you do not mention how you violate your own terms by installing stuff that cannot be uninstalled easily.
I cannot find the payment page in German, I probably used a link I saw after downloading, or maybe of in the sourceforge site.
This is just what I tried to explain: when you got the offer for the AVG Toolbar, did then get SweetIM installed? I really doubt it, because this is a totally different offer. When you received SweetIM, it had a similar screen, which definitely showed a similar thing as it is on the AVG screen.
I'll check the part about uninstalling it. This of course must be possible, but I am sure it is, as others said so here in the forum.
kind regards,
Philip
>when you got the offer for the AVG Toolbar, did then get SweetIM installed
I unchecked the AVG Toolbar and got the SweetIM and Search Settings things installed.
There was a SweetIM uninstallation. That assumes I would be looking for SweetIM; since I do not recall that name being mentioned on the installation. There there was something else that could be uninstalled but that had code-type name that you would never know what that was. After all that, I do not think that was even uninstalled.
Just install the current version and check for yourself.
Also, I can't find an AV vendor that classifies SweetIM as malicious or something similar.
Spybot S&D.
But again, it doesn't even matter if it's malicious or not. It is not neccesary for PDFcreator's functionality, declining its installation is confusing at best, and there is no uninstaller once it's on your system.
I have also noticed that right before the SweetIM offer, the installer downloads and executes another executable, InstallManager.exe. It goes by quickly, so pay attention, it's definately there.
This is especially dangerous, since I loose control over what exactly is executed. I already gave the PDFcreator installer access to my system via UAC, and now it's executing a new executable from a source that's unreliable by nature (because the source is not exposed, and neither is its purpose) that could potentially harm my pc. I don't really care what it does if it's bonafide, but I do care if I don't know what's executed in the context of an application that already got its administrative permissions.
When the SweetIM offer appears, it clearly says in the title "Installing PDFcreator" and there is indeed a Decline button. Any first-time user will think that click it will decline installing PDFcreator, because, hey, that's what it says. Now, changing the title doesn't fix the problem. The fix is to either remove this crapware and get money in a more honest way, or to ask for CLEAR user consent. By forcing the user to check a radiobutton, which are initially both unchecked. A checkbox won't do because you want opt-out and users want opt-in, a button won't do, because you clearly can't design GUI's with buttons, so it has to be a set of radiobuttons.
Making this analogue to a physical store, it's like the cashier says "now that I have you in my grasp, you must walk through this potentially privacy-invading scanner. Oh, and do you *not* want this extra bottle of horse manure? No? You don't not want it? Great! Here ya go".
It doesn't work like that. If you think about it, PDFcreator installer is just another asshole.
Unchecked all boxes, hit next... BAM spyware. You are tricking your users into installing this spyware crap. It's sneaky, it's disingenuous, and it's a non-starter for me. I am uninstalling all PDFForge products, as soon as I get done removing the spyware junk you installed on my machine.
I am also posting on G+ and Fb to warn my friends to avoid your scam.
I would also recommend filing a complaint on Sourceforge as it clearly violates their terms as well.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/report_inappropriate
Good idea. Done and done.
I have informed Gizmo's Freware www.techsupportalert.com (a leading freeware advice site) about the inclusion of spyware in your installer and the deceptive practice of requiring the user to click on "decline", rather than just unchecking the check boxes by their names. They should be following up by removing you software from their recommendations in the PDF Writer category, or at least providing a warning.
I have been a loyal user of PDFCreator for several years now, and it disappoints me to have to do this.
Several hours later, I am still trying to get rid of the spyware infestation that pdfforge has caused me.
Perhaps the worst aspect of all this for me is that FOSS is no longer safe, if it ever was. I used to come to Sourceforge for safe and open software. Now I have to treat it with distrust just like I treat everyone else.
The way that the decline button is presented to the user to "Decline" to install the %$"# crap is morally wrong.
I have no problems supporting high quality software and have donated freely in the past (Truecrypt, LibreOffice, NoScript, VLC etc). Either make it free and ask or sell it. Don't trick your users so that you can make a few bucks.
I shall find some other alternative to PDFcreator as I am DISGUSTED by this, and now need to use my valuable time to remove the SweetIM CRAP from my system.
Laurens